Tuesday, September 10, 2013
Is Plato a Feminist?
Plato, through the mouthpiece of Socrates, advocates some radical views about woman in Ch 7 of the Republic. In particular, he argues not only that women can be guardians, but that they can have equal duties (more or less) and an identical education. The only exception he makes is for physical difference between the sexes. These views are in stark contrast to a woman's place in 5th century Athens, in which a woman was prohibited from a political life and confined to the domestic household (and had a similarly limited education). Does it make sense to call Plato a feminist (and does it depend on your notion of feminism)? Or does Plato still miss something important about women? Furthermore, have we in 21st century America realized his ideas?
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The chapter that elicits this question focuses on the placement of women and children within the guardian status of society. Firstly, feminism focuses on the empowerment of women and their intrinsically equal nature with men. During the course of the conversation, Plato contradicts himself which makes it hard to come to a conclusive decision about his feelings towards women. Plato begins by saying that women guardians should get the same education as women if they’re to do the same job. This statement is not necessarily for women’s right but a simple logical statement. Even though the simple idea that women are capable of doing the same job is farfetched for his time period, it doesn’t necessarily form a feminist stand point of empowerment. Following a discussion about the whether the nature of men and women are different, Plato states, “But if the only difference turns out to be that females bear offspring, while males mount females” (454d). This idea leans more towards a natural equality between men and women. It doesn’t make women inferior and it gives them the power of child birth while men just “mount” the women. Plato continues in a positive direction but soon loses his way when he says, “There’s no administrative job in a community which belong to a woman qua woman, or to a man qua man. Innate qualities have been distributed equally between the two sexes, and women can join in every occupation just as much as men, although they are the weaker sex in all aspects” (455d). Plato completely contradicts himself in two sentences. He makes men and women equal intellectually and yet, he makes the claim that women are the weaker sex. Plato doesn’t even stick to his own premise that a philosopher should love truth and knowledge. Plato’s inconsistent claims make him faulty and incapable of being seen as truthful. A true feminist would stick to his claims despite the pressure of the culture around him or her.
ReplyDeleteIf you were to define feminism as the advocating social and political rights of women so that they are equal to those of men, I think Plato’s’ claims represent that, but in a very limited sense. Plato believes that concern for the welfare of the community should have priority over convention, and convention meaning that women are strictly left to work at home, take care of their children, and have very little participation in political affairs. Plato believes that their primary education should be identical: “if we’re going to use women for the same purposes as men, we have to educate them in the same way”. Thus, Plato leans toward a natural sense of equality between men and women. He recognizes the capablility of women to become guardians and thus their equal political roles in society. This is an example of his advocation for the political rights of women as stated in the definition above. Even though he does believe that women are “a physically weaker sex”, his ideas are radical enough for his time to allow him to be considered a feminist. Plato notices inherent differences in the nature of men and women, such as the fact that women bear children, however he never states that those differences are negative nor inferred out of ignorance. Taking into great account that Plato is making very radical claims toward women in 5th century Athens, calling him a feminist for his time is not far-fetching.
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ReplyDeletePlato believes in the equality of men and woman. He says that woman and men are equal until proven different but he doesn’t believe that woman are just automatically considered as inferiors. To be a feminist, one must be completely pro woman and not only argue for their equality, but also completely support the gender. During this period of time, woman were looked at as inferior. Although Plato's views are ahead of his time, I wouldn't consider him a feminist. While Plato clearly advocates the equality of men and woman, some of his statements clearly contradict the thought of him as a complete feminist. Plato believes that "Innate qualities have been distributed equally between the two sexes, and women can join in every occupation just as much as men, although they are the weaker sex in all respects" (455e). It wouldve been impossible, during this time period, to make statements on woman equality without mentioning how they are a weaker sex. His thoughts would completely be overlooked and thought of as ridiculous. This statement clearly shows the gist of what he is trying to say, while ending his statement with something that the public could agree with. Although society thinks of woman as the weaker sex, Plato clearly does not. While Plato believes in gender equality, he isnt a feminist. I think that in the 21st century we mostly agree with his ideas, except those of which that say woman are the weaker sex.
ReplyDeleteTo decide whether or not Plato is a feminist, one would have to first define the term feminism or know what the term mainly focuses on. Feminism main goal is to not only enforce equality between both women and men, but also to empower women into striving to pursue bigger and possible better opportunities. In order for someone to call themselves a feminist, they would have to agree and strive for both of the main goals of a feminist, no matter how radical the person may come across as being. In his argument, Plato does argue that women are equal. This view is very different than the ideas of most at the time, so one could describe Plato as being radical or having a radical idea. Even though he argues this, Plato doesn’t try to empower women in general. He does, however, go against himself and the statements that he had made at one point in his argument. Plato says that women are equal until proven different; however, he also states that he believes that women are the weaker gender in all respects. By saying this, he almost contradicts himself when he said that he believed that women are equal to men. From this argument, one can see that he is only arguing for one point of which feminism tries to make. Plato also only has a few qualities that a true feminist obtains. To be a feminist, one would have to obtain all of the ideas that feminism argues for.
ReplyDeleteAs a starting point, I think people should first look towards wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_movements_and_ideologies. Feminism is far more diverse than what people might think. Under certain feminist ideologies, you can easily label Socrates as a feminist. If you decide to view feminism as simply the empowerment of females, even though Plato's conception of females would be unacceptable today equality wise, it is undeniable he was still advocating for the empowerment of females which would make him a feminist.
ReplyDeleteAlso regarding Plato's comments regarding skill distribution the argue is simply as follows I believe: He believe there are skills at which women exceed men at, while the average man is superior to the average woman, there exist special cases of women more talented at things. Because such a distribution exists, to deny women would be equivalent to denying talent. Providing opportunity is the sole way to harness that potential, therefore women should be more included in society.